109311-it-is-just-me-or-is-there-a-lack-of-instances
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- To little to late? I am interesting in running them, but i am currentaly so incredibly bored with leveling that i have decided to move on. The game needed to launch with lots more and then add more, but the total number on instances currently in the game is less than the number that were available by the time you hit ~40 in vanilla wow at launch (by the time you got to SM cath you had more instances than you have in W* 1-50) and hell compared to FFXIV:ARR you have the same amount that they have 1-20 for 1-50. | |} ---- If you actually do the math, Wildstar's shiphands/adventures/dungeons meets or exceeds Vanilla WoW's instance count, depending on how you count things like the halves of Stratholme, BRD, and BRS, and SM wings. And if you count SM as 4 instances, I feel bad for you and your standards, because Graveyard and Library were garbage * Blizzard was right to merge SM into doubled-up wings. Cinsidering how the low level stuff like Wailing Caverns or Razorfens were as irrelevant at high level as shiphands currently are, it's a fair comparison. | |} ---- ---- Coulda, woulda, shoulda, amigo. I can't help what happened. I can only tell you what I know about the future. You're willingness to hang on and see the content is on you. | |} ---- I'm talking about the leveling game, and yes SM was 4 different instances as by the time you were level appropriate for cath the mobs in GY were grey. And i would hope that a game that launched in 2014 has better dungeons than a game that launched in 2004. Now that said i don't know how many shiphands there are, the wiki says 4 with 2 of those being faction specific (so 3 per faction) That means that you have 4 dungeons, 5 adventures and 3 shiphands for a total of 12. Vanilla wow at launch, all the way up to 60, had RFC/WC/VC/SFK/BFD/Stocks/Gnomer/RFK/SM gy/lib/arm/cath/RFD/Ulda/ZF/ST/BRD/Scholo/Strat dead/live/ LBRS/UBRS 22 dungeons to run (almost double!) 17 if you don't count different wings (5 more!) or 15 if you don't count VC/stocks for horde and RFK/WC for alliance (unlike in W* however it may not have been designed for your faction you could still run it if you could get to it, and yes i did VC on my hord characters quite often for that leather set) | |} ---- It sounds like you havent even hit 50... You have to hit max level before you can truly determine if the game was a success or not.. This game has always been advertised as a hardcore endgame videogame... So... once you get to 50... and realize how hard the dungeons can be.. you won't want anymore for quite some time =) | |} ---- A lot of people make the same mistake, when they look at a mmo they only look at the end game. However the leveling game is just as important as the end game, it is your first experience with the game and as such will determine weather or not you stay or quit. I once had a friend say is it worth it to eat a line of shit to get to the cherry? In this instance the line of shit is W* leveling and the cherry is the end game. Now is may be a damn good cherry, but chances are I'm gonna get sick of the shit before i even get a chance to check it out. | |} ---- ---- ---- Technically it would be; and it would be another 12 on top once vet shiphands are introduced (6 shiphands currrently, not 3 OP). But silly things like facts don't matter on these forums. | |} ---- What a joke. Do you really want to go that route? Do you want to count the DOZENS of heroics that WoW contains pre-level cap? What about the heroics at level cap? What about the raids pre-level cap? What about the out-dated raids AT level cap? Get real. There is a SEVERE lack of group content while leveling, and at end-game. But White Knights will still defend the indefensible; Low pop servers across the board don't matter. | |} ---- AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA, you actually mentioned guildhests as content. I'm sorry, it's just THAT laughable. I think all of the guildhests AND FFXIV dungeons don't even = 1 WS dungeon honestly. | |} ---- LoL Heroics, as if those were real content... And if you are truly ignorant enough to think I'm a white knight, well there wouldn't be much point in making a witty comment here, it would go straight over your head. | |} ---- You said at release. WoW didn't have heroics at release. WS has veterans and they do run differently than the normal mode. Just saying. | |} ---- I thought we were compairing to vanilla WoW, and at launch even? WoW didn't have heroics, and it certainly didn't have pre-max lvl raids (it only had 2 of them as I recall at release: onyxia, and MC). Compairing the amount of content in a freshly released (or nearly) MMO to an MMO that's been out for even just a couple years, let alone as many as WoW has, is never a fair comparison. Or do you expect every new MMO released to have a decade of extra content worked on and ready to go before the company can release and start to make some money? Now granted, I would love even just 1-2 more dungeons, but those ARE being worked on. Veteran shiphand missions will also go a long ways to fill that "I don't really want to sit down for an hour+ to run a dungeon, but I'm bored!" gap. | |} ---- Most of you guys just don't get it. Wildstar is being compared to WoW NOW, not TEN years ago. Carry on though, Wildstar is glorious and its me and the consumer (who have been leaving en masse) who don't get it. PS: No where in my first post did I say "at release (in 2004...) WoW contained X." Nice try though. Goal posts >>>>>>>>>>>>> | |} ---- ---- The only engaging fights in SWTOR were when I had to literally heal people though ground targeted AoE. It was called; how long can I keep this idiot standing in spite of their own sheer incompetence.... A saying I developed while healing in SWTOR; "look guys, these fights are really easy, but not even I can heal through stupid"... Didn't help my case when I solo'd bosses in OP's though...Oh good old Operative.... If that games content didn't blow harder than a horney hurricane it would be so good.... I 100% agree with everything you said and whole heartedly support this ^^^^ That said, I can easily find an example of a 14 year old MMO and a brand new one that meets your criteria: Wildstar Online (2014) Ragnarok Online (2002) Believe it or not RO is still active, and it had a major update (Renewal) released in 2010... That said; W* beats it at every turn when it comes to raw amount of content. Now again, 100% agree with your sentiment, but technicalities are what they are. | |} ---- If you seriously expect any new MMO to have the same amount, not quality but just the raw amount of content compared to an MMO that's been out for 14 years, you're going to be let down 100% of the time. Please, prove me wrong, find any newly released MMO that had the sheer volume of content compared to 14 years of patches and expansions. I'm not saying that it doesn't feel a little short on dungeons, I said as much in my last post, it feels like it could use 1-2 more at least for release, but it does have something else going for it. I had a LOT of fun in the dungeons we did get. After I ran STL for the first time at lvl 20 (actually the 2nd time, after I reworked my tanking spec/gear since I got thrashed) I thought to myself "this is proof of concept that you don't need 20-40 people to have raid difficulty content!". I haven't played WoW in a long time, granted (I played from release to the end of BC, and took another look for cata but it didn't hook me again) but most of the non-raid content there could be summed up as "tank/spank with 1-2 things to do otherwise, don't stand in red". | |} ---- But WoW also has a shitty combat system and horrible stiff movement, so if you want to compare the games don't forget to add that. That aside this game does need more instances, but more importantly are tutorial dungeons and an armoury system like FF14 so that players can quickly and painlessly switch between roles. Having gear sets take up space in your inventory is so archaic. | |} ---- Neither can I, SW:ToR's dungeons were forgetful. I remember all sorts of dungeons in WoW. WC was a load of fun. Gnomergan because I hated it as Horde (Kinda like I HATE SSM, and every adventure but WoTW). Dire Maul was fun killing Ogres and some of the loot was VERY good when it released. UBRS wiping on Drak. Culliing of Stratholme was awesome (WC3 junkie). The key to all of this is a break of atmosphere while leveling. ATM, I can queue for dozen upon dozens for dungeons on one guy in WoW to reach level cap - Mists of Pandaria expansion (85-90) has more leveling dungeons than Wildstar 1-50. Or, I can quest in a single path to 85, and do it again on another character in a totally different zones to 85 (85-90 is very different, sadly, will not argue that, rather linear). Right now, dungeons and adventures take a lot longer to finish than just Zone/World story questing with the less rewards, and are in short supply. | |} ---- Those are opinions on combat IMO. I fell in love with Wildstar's combat after beta. After two 50s, not as keen on it anymore. A lot of the classes feel the same (have all of them to at least 30) and Wildstar still needs a lot of polish. Telegraphs in PvE, most certainly in dungeons (to me) are no different than tab based combat. Once you know the encounter, using Collapse/Stagger to interrupt ability X in interrupt rotation group A, Pounce/Dash to leap out of Y only takes you so far when your DPS rotations are so simple. Now, I wont pretend to know about raiding environments in this game, but I am in a 4/6 GA guild and am fully attuned. Just no desire to set aside a set schedule for this game when I feel I'm not rewarded (the rune fixes should have been in Drop 1). | |} ---- The combat in wow has definitely degraded over the years, but the animations/movement is some of the most fluid in any mmo ever. W* came close to being as fluid as wow but not quite. That said the new models that they are planning turn me off. Something i noticed about the playable pandas and monks were they animations and movement were not quite on key with the older animations/models. If the same people that are doing the revamped models are did the panda models i can see the game sinking rather fast as it will no longer have the same fluidity that it once had. And for people talking about vet adventures/dungeons please keep in mind that when making this thread i had the leveling game in mind, not the end game. While leveling there is almost no group content that is worth doing to break up the tediousness that is questing. Storm talons lair and Ruins were definitely an awesome break once i unlocked them at level 20 BUT you can only do the same 2 dungeons for so long before you get tired of running the same thing over and over. It is one of the main reasons i hated MOP leveling, when it first came out you had like 4 or 5 dungeons for the whole 85-90 experience and it got boring running those same dungeons over and over. Now imagine 3 dungeons for 1-50 (iirc swordmaiden unlocks AT level 50) and yeah. I tried adventures, and when i could get a group i was not very impressed with them. | |} ---- I have no need to prove you wrong, the consumer base has. The only MMO with a resounding success that WoW has maintained since its launch is FFIX: AAR. And they have several different options when it comes to playing with a group while leveling. Far beyond Wildstar. Tried AAR, not my cup of tea, but they do have A LOT of content, no matter what your opinion of quality is. STL was fun the first time. Just like every instance was (except Malgrave... and Crimelords.. Tempest Refuge reminded me of a shortened Hyjal raid... oh, SSM please die). However, I fail to see how most of these dungeons aren't the same as "Tank/spank, 1-2 things to do, don't stand in red".... STL for example, Avoid red, interrupt, and don't kite to get your group killed. The only difference I've seen with dungeon difficulty (never thought Silvers were hard) is the amount of insta-gib red compared to others in the genre. Mechanics haven't changed (IMO). | |} ---- Fluid movement my ass, you let go of W and you stop on the spot; even on a flying mount. Games with actual fluid movement like Mario have momentum behind movement; makes it feel more like you're an actual entity in the world. Wildstar may have a ton of problems but movement and combat are not two of them. | |} ---- Agreed...the argument that "WoW had XXXXX at launch, so our game should also have XXXXX at launch" works for most arguments, but not all (such as this one). Having to do UBRS, LBRS, both Stratholme and Scholo was ok in vanilla WoW because it was all new and exciting. If you look at TBC and Wrath you will see that they had a ton of instances at their respective caps. TBC had 15 level 70 heroic dungeons, later on that would be increased to 16. They were also available in normal mode, with i think 7 of them being available at level 70 as normal mode too, the others being available at slightly lower levels. WOTLK had 12 heroic dungeons on release, and later that would increase to 13 then shortly after to 16. Initially for normal mode at level cap you had 4 i think? and that would go up to 8 when the others dungeons got released. Cant comment on Cata dungeons though cause i wasnt around and i'm not gonna look it up on a wiki. Why the huge increases in number of dungeons at each expac? could it be because partly because they know people will burn through that content faster? Thats why I think that WS needs to release "Drop X, holy shit we just added a bunch of instances!!!". | |} ---- Seriously? Cause I remember playing through the main story and quests, and then being forced to run with massive zerg balls between world events from the time I logged in to the time I logged out. Forced because you had to level each class separately but quests weren't repeatable. Dungeons were only worth doing for new gear every once in a while. The zergball that I spent 90% of my time in had no groups and chatting was kept to a minimum since you had to do your damnedest to to tag every mob. I dropped that game after about a week of that crap and haven't looked back. | |} ---- ---- And that isn't going to happen. They don't have them in the works for at least a months away other than the protostar ones. Also, how is gold Swordmaiden this time of year? | |} ---- Six Shiphands: Outpost M-13, Space Madness, Salvage Rights, Rage Logic, The Gauntlet, Void Hunter. Six Adventures; Hycrest Insurrection, War of the Wilds, Crimelords of Whitevale, Riot in the Void, Seige of Tempest Refuge, Malgrave Trail. Four Dungeons: Skullcano, Sanctuary of the Sword Maiden, Ruins of Kel Voreth, Stormtalon's Lair. 16 total. Regarding launch WoW instanced content, there are qualifiers to be made: UBRS was not physically possible to do 5 man. It was always a 15 man raid, tuned down later to 10. That's not small group content, and quests could not be completed in a raid, such as building the ring that was essentially the key. Scholomance was also a 10 man raid, had quests for a 5 man group, but was overtuned until late in 2005, so it was launched and run for a year as a raid functionally. I don't consider 10 man to be an ideal raid group size, but anything over 5 players made quest credit invalid, so the point stands. Furthermore, The separate instance portals of Scarlet Monastery technically make 4 different dungeons, but players generally travelling to that location and the intent of doing multiple if not all wings. Graveyard was literally un-run by itself because it had one boss with no worthwhile loot for anyone(a blue offhand, which is garbage next to the 2H staff in Library or Cathedral) and was tiny; Shiphands are enormous by comparison, and I think Shiphands are short. Casters would not run Armory and basically not heal it unless Library or Cath was next on the list because Armory only had melee/hunter gear. I count WoW launch content as: Starter content(6): Ragefire Chasm, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Shadowfang Keep, Blackfathom Deeps, Stockades Intermediate content(6): Gnomeregan, Razorfen Downs, Razorfen Kraul, Zul'Farrak, Uldaman, Scarlet Monastery(as one) Endgame content(4): Sunken Temple, Stratholme(technically 1 very large instance), Blackrock Depths(raidable for attunement purposes, but correctly tuned for 5 man questing), Lower Blackrock Spire(also correctily tuned for 5 man, but really hard). There's an interesting correlation between how simple and linear many of the early content dungeons are in WoW to the fairly simple layout of Shiphands, and the branching content like ZF compares to choosing a path in Adventures. I doubt we're ever going to see something on the scale of BRD ever again though in any game, sadly. | |} ---- As much as I loved OG FFXI, I really don't understand how people can consider a game that nearly bankrupt SE and is now in emergency 'lets not ruin our whole company' mode is a success. FFXIV was and is a terrible game (gameplay wise). I still have a sub to it, because I am a SE fanboy, but I can't actually play it, I just log in to dance on my lalafell WHM every now and then and enjoy the art. Game itself is terrible, and even if they trippled their subs they will still be digging themselves out of the hole that FFXIV made for years to come. | |} ----